Sleeping With the Enemy

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German statue to free speech and whistle-blowers – the extra chair is for anybody to use

I have no idea why Scotland is rescuing England from its self. I think it startling to see the elected representatives of our ‘poverty-stricken nation – England’s colonial description, not mine – wasting time fighting a small section of the fascist Tory Party, the 1922 Committee, and telling England the obvious, Brexit is a Deathstar.

Sending MPs to Westminster in the hope English politicians will grant Scotland liberty and the right to exercise free will is like feeding a crocodile with Tunnocks Caramel Wafers in the hope of weaning it off meat.

The gift that never keeps coming

Does the SNP think the English will be so enormously relieved for our help they will grant us our independence as a reward if we are instrumental in England staying in the European Union? Are the Irish running about, like feverish athletes in training, advising the British Government how best to ‘thwart the will of the English people”? From bitter experience, the Irish know how corrupt the British state is and how rotten is its ethos.

The majority of English wish to be rid of the EU. That is their right. Some have put up a plausible set of reasons to govern themselves without accepting the consensus of 27 European states. Why are we telling them NOT to govern themselves whilst demanding that we govern ourselves, and we make our own choices?

Creeping fascism

Yes, UKIP’s ideology is unpalatable, akin to Mussolini and Franco’s outpourings, as is much of the cruel policies of a far-right Tory party losing some of its MPs faster than a balding man his hair. Let them do what they want to do, but we must use our energies to block their xenophobia and their racism from enveloping Scotland and convincing the easily swayed the solution to Scotland’s ills is to send foreign folk home– and damn! – there’s a lot of us easily swayed who think our colonial masters are Greek sages.

What Sturgeon should be announcing, over and above warm platitudes about Europeans and the like being welcome here, is warning the Home Office we will protect any person threatened with repatriation, including police protection.

People in Scotland are supposed to be protected from summary eviction and immediate homelessness under mainstream Scots housing law, but already we learn refugees are getting locked out of their homes. We say one thing, we do another.

Confront the runts of fascism here and now, not clear a path for them to do their dirty work because some sod in Westminster got a Bill passed to stop anybody interfering with their plans.

This struggle, this revolution, isn’t about our politicians keeping their conscience clean – “oh, you can’t blame us, we said the rights things” – it’s about us protecting what we value most and the innocent among us! Action not words!

Leaving England

English alarmed at what they see and hear, talk of packing their bags, Grapes of Wrath fashion, and emigrating to Scotland for “a better life and environment” for their family … and free education, health service, prescriptions and so on, and so forth.

Those are the people who need to understand they must vote for the one party that stands for full democratic rights – the SNP, the one to protect the rights they are here to enjoy. No point in traipsing up here only to vote Tory, Labour, or god forbid, UKIP.

Forget convincing the elderly to vote Yes, people who remember the aftermath of the war years and rationing. They probably still have a press (cupboard), some where in their house crammed full of old paper bags and newspapers, ready to use for the next shortages of war. They won’t alter their mindset unless warned Brexit means their medicines will disappear. Let them live the rest of their curmudgeonly lives in peace. A lot probably deserve it. Allow their grandchildren to do the convincing on our behalf.

The English patient

Our English brothers and sisters are the people we should concentrate upon for the next plebiscite. There are over 350,000 English domiciled in Scotland.

Very few voted Yes for the reinstatement of an independent Scotland. Terrific if some, such as the ‘English for Indy’ group wish to exercise their conscience by supporting civil rights, but those who find it difficult to shake off their ‘Britishness’, their patriotism to their home country, county, or shire, need encouraged to show what I call, enlightened self-interest.

300,000 thousand people switching from No to Yes is the difference between living under the boot of a fascist transformed England or a liberal, progressive Scotland. Keep in mind, many – and that’s not a guess – will have voted to dump the EU. Convincing them a free Scotland in some sort of relationship with the EU will be doubly difficult. They need reminded we are welcomed by the EU, but have yet to state what we want from the EU.

The Irish are incandescent about the mess this abysmally-handled Brexit process is making of the hard-won peace in Northern Ireland and the difficult recovery of the economy, while the rest of the EU looks on with a justifiable degree of schadenfreude. And few are thinking about a holiday in Europe while stories of lengthy queues in airport ‘Alien’ lines filter home. We, meanwhile insult Ireland by rushing to the aid of England’s self-harm.

Where are we now?

Homelessness is rife. Queues at food banks are growing ever longer. The Scottish NHS is wondering how it can possibly cope once all the immigrants, whose dedication and hard work make its existence possible, are refused work permits in Scotland.

Young people have no idea whether or not they’ll be able to study abroad, or if they choose to work in Scotland they will ever afford the deposit for a house. Rentism is rampant, now supplanting the middle-classes. Small businesses don’t know if they’re going to be able to open their doors come Brexit’s finality, and big businesses are preparing to up sticks for countries where the lunatics aren’t running the asylum.

In the Brexit universe I hear the SNP at Holyrood mimicking the utterances of Tory and Labour at Westminster. Nicola Sturgeon sounds more of an Anglophile every day, less of the leader of independence: caught cheek to cheek with one of Scotland’s most virulent anti-independence mongers, Alastair Campbell, war criminal and Tony Blair’s former press officer; Putin is a bad boy; Russia is the evil empire again; Gibraltar is British; Israel is correct to retaliate against Palestinian protest; shame Salmond’s show airs on Russian Television; Venezuela is in need of regime change; ad nauseam – have we no mind of our own?

The answer to all these problems, according to our elected representatives, is to save England from itself. England is paralysed and polarised, but there exist enough good people there to sort it out over time. If we keep sleeping with England’s discredited politicos we can’t complain when we contract a dose of the English pox.

Jurassic Park

The dinosaurs of ideologies are in power everywhere. I do not want to hear my government emulating them. I feel bad enough defending Salmond and Swinney over approving a chunk of Scotland given to mafia thug Trump to screw around.

Anybody in the USA could have told the SNP Trump is a liar and a crook, a man not to be trusted, his word wholly unreliable, and yet our SNP went sleepwalking into Union Jack McConnell’s trap and handed Trump a strip of Aberdeenshire coastline that never wanted for a line of millionaire houses stuck on its panorama.

At least Nicola Sturgeon let Trump have it with both barrels, interesting to see if she will keep that attitude in place.

 Attack our enemies, not alienate our supporters

I feel bad about offering an analysis of what’s going wrong with the SNP,  but by hell, the SNP had better wise up fast. We have the key to remove ourselves from this dark place.

I do not ask for a second independence referendum tomorrow. I ask for our government to stop getting distracted by inane, wee heel nippers at First Minister’s question time, and to go on the attack, an assault currently missing against the British state.

Be merciless calling out British carpetbaggers, the mendacious press, and venal London politicians. Keep the pressure up, be relentless. Those miscreants ought to be reeling from our vituperative onslaught. They’ll never accede to independence talks thinking we are terribly fair people.

Let the people know what rights we are losing in the face of creeping fascism. Stop seeking out photo opportunities with minority groups as if the happiness of the majority is already intact. It feels like the last days of the British Empire with Scotland desperately keen to see it survive. Is the SNP blind?

Brexit has laid bare the British political class, a bag of squirming, slimy leeches. To paraphrase Amazon’s billionaire Jeff Bezos, Brexit rolled over the log and we saw what crawled out.

David Cameron’s calamitous EU referendum exposes an English exceptionalism verging on mass delusion. English imperialism ruled the world by brutality. When it comes to governing its own people it knows only the same methods to engineer consent.

In the name of sanity, liberty and freedom- let England go! Let us concentrate on convincing the people of Scotland to protect this nation now and forever, to be a guiding light to other nations, including England, and seek solidarity with international friends.

I know my destiny. It is not a child for England to command or to kick around.

FURTHER READING:

 

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42 Responses to Sleeping With the Enemy

  1. Charles Maitland says:

    fantastic post, hits the nail square on

  2. Grouse Beater says:

    Thank you. I’ve mounting apprehension of hearing SNP say good riddance to Assange.

  3. ‘By hell, the SNP had better wise up fast. Scotland’s democracy is not a personal matter – it’s a matter for us all’. Hear Hear! Excellent Essay Again G x Yes the Assange situation is disgusting. Especially after I saw this.. https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2019/03/11/ecuador-pr1972-imf-executive-board-approves-eff-for-ecuador

  4. Duncan Strachan says:

    Well said Grouse Beater. The SNP are becoming the nice wee aunty and uncle who’s always kind to the kids while sacrificing their own dinner. They need to get a grip on the politics and be a damned site more brutal. Take a leaf out of the Irish book. Indeed.

  5. angusskye says:

    Excellent stuff, GB. I have always refused to be a Yesman (in a non-indy way!), but Yes, Yes, Yes.

  6. steelewires says:

    Thanks for this. I’m going to pose it on Facebook.

  7. Grouse Beater says:

    Thanks, Steeelewires – Facebook seems to double readers… 🙂

  8. grumpydubai says:

    Every point made by you is absolutely SUPERB.

    Thank you.

    Ian

  9. Donald McGregor says:

    Hurrah and thank you for all of this. It’s far beyond time that we allowed ourselves some anger. I really no longer understand what we are waiting for. Waiting for ‘the fog of brexit’ to clear feels increasingly like claiming that one of the possible outcomes could be acceptable enough for us to heave a sigh of relief and then carry on as before!

  10. Grouse Beater says:

    I’m pleased there is truth and meaning enough for you. Thank you.

  11. dal74 says:

    Great stuff mate. I created an account specifically to tell you.

    You are not afraid to use the two words that are taboo in the indy debate. English and colony. I can understand why we are reticent to use them but we should be clear. Scotland is a colony of England. The huge number of English immigrants living in Scotland are a barrier to Scotland’s independence – both little imperialists who vote for Scotland to remain a colony of their homeland and the strategically, deliberately, disproportionate number of senior posts afforded to English people in our institutions.

    To observe this isn’t to be anti-English. Like most in Scotland I have English family, friends (including my best one), neighbours and colleagues. Most perfectly decent people and a number of them indy supporters. There should however be an idea that to move to Scotland and vote against its self determination is something to be ashamed of. And wrong. I would never countenance doing so in another country.

    Couple of indy voting stories. My daughter’s friends family (very middle class and relatively recent arrivals in Scotland) were quite clear, as was their precocious daughter in school, that they were voting no as they didn’t want their grandparents living in a different country. My colleague and friend refused to vote as he had a property in his hometown of Sunderland and thought it would be bad for England, house prices and therefore his finances. He recognised though the passion of the yes movement and accepted if he was Scottish he’d be voting yes.

    I know which is the morally superior stance.

  12. Grouse Beater says:

    I’m not sure what influence my essays have on those who take time to read them, but I believe I can claim I shifted the term ‘colonial’ from taboo to mainstream by its repetition in polemic when describing merry England’s domination of Scotland’s life and economy.

    Incidentally, there are two essays exemplifying the tyranny you are welcome to read. Just Google ‘Grouse Beater’ and add ‘Colonial’ and they should pop up.

  13. Alan Gordon says:

    Can’t argue with any of that. The scan and rythm carries the frustration, anger and urgency to the end.

    Read this from Fintan O’Toole, an extract from an interview;

    [We need to ask of the UK] …how does a very successful, relatively wealthy, very settled-looking democracy start to imagine itself being intolerably oppressed. Whatever you think of the European Union, and I have been as critical of it as have others, it’s not an oppressive force.

    And yet the basic impulse in Brexit is we are an oppressed people and we have to have the equivalent of an anti-colonial revolution, whereby we throw off our oppressors. At the heart of that, you’re forced to think about self-pity, because you have to feel very, very sorry for yourself to imagine that the European Union is intolerably oppressing you.

    The interesting thing about self-pity is we tend to think it involves low self-esteem. I don’t think anybody would accuse the English of suffering from low self-esteem. But self-pity isn’t low self-esteem; it’s actually quite high self-esteem. You feel sorry for yourself because you think you deserve more. You’re not getting what you deserve. And I think we have to see that this is a big part of the deep psychology of Brexit, this sense that the British deserve more than just to be another fairly normal Western European country, that their destiny is different.

    In an imperial mind-set, there’s only two states: You’re either the top dog, or you’re being kicked. You’re either the conqueror, the ruler, or you’re the subjected people. There’s nothing in between. This is the legacy of empire…

    In this particular mind-set, Europe is seen as the dominant…

    It just adds emphasis to what you write and what we know, Scotland needs to be separated from England.

  14. Grouse Beater says:

    All very quotable, Alan. I’ll lift a sentence and put it on Twitter. Thank you.

  15. steelewires says:

    We need to distinguish English self pity, which aligns with English arrogance and a sense that they’re not being recognised as the Alpha in the pack of European countries, and Scottish low self esteem. This latter is associated with the notion that we don;t deserve any better than English domination and that we’re not capable of sitting at the top table with the other European countries.

    Many of us have thrown this off, but the English government of the UK, its agencies and Unionists work at nurturing it.

  16. Stirring stuff as per Grousy, many thanks!

    I may have mentioned in previous comments, that I have witnessed the English carpet baggers in action all of my thinking life. Never a day has gone by in the last 45 years, when I haven’t been aghast at the number of English accents presented in positions of authority in Scotland on the media. From the most senior civil servants to the heads of Scottish Natural Heritage or the National Gallery or any number of arts organisations; time and again we hear the cultured Oxbridge tones.

    Over the last decade, the number of Vox pop voices in interviews on BBC, STV and the other “major” broadcasters which are not native Scots voices has grown and grown. Every time I see a street interview situation in a Scottish city or town, I make a point of counting the Scots accents presented. They are alarmingly rare.

    Where are the Scots in Scotland?

  17. Grouse Beater says:

    ‘Colonial’ used to be the taboo subject, so it became in time ‘English’, the elephant in the room, as any Indian who followed Gandhi will attest.

  18. Wilma Mcewan says:

    Well said, a triumph, a must read for all who want Indy, a wake up for many who seem to be content with waiting.

  19. Grouse Beater says:

    You’re too kind, Wilma! Stop that, at once.

  20. Derek Cameron says:

    The softly softly, don’t scare the horses approach to independence laid bare as the delusion that it is.

  21. Grouse Beater says:

    I thought diplomacy the best path until I began to hear others question things. Now it’s common discourse – is it an SNP strategy or a plan to take each day as it comes?

  22. Yet another exemplary piece from you. Reading it merely serves to underline the not inconsiderable doubts that I have regarding the political-social motivation and ethos of the current SNP Leadership team, you bang every nail on the head as regards their political naivety et al, that which is teetering on the brink of causing Scotland to miss the most gifted opportunity to extricate itself from this colonial dinosaur of a ‘Union’ – “Union”? Christ don’t make me laugh.

  23. Dal74 and Neil Anderson..well said

    Grousebeater I like your tenacity. It’s sadly lacking elsewhere in the Scottish independence movement.

    One thing I don’t agree with is your suggestion that we should be trying to persuade the huge number of English people living in Scotland that they should vote in favour of Scottish independence.

    They never will.

    I don’t think it’s democratic for them to get a vote on Scottish independence, the only people who ever think they should get a vote are British people. Every single person I have ever spoken to about this who is from another country is absolutely amazed that Scotland allows English people to vote against Scottish independence.

    They agree with me that it matters not where they live, all that matters and all the reason needed to exclude them from voting is that they are English and should not be allowed to vote for THEIR country to continue controlling Scotland. So what if they happen to be living in Scotland at this moment in time? That is irrelevant when it comes to deciding Scotland’s future.

  24. Grouse Beater says:

    You make a very good point with which I, and others no doubt, find hard to argue against.

  25. Alan Gordon says:

    Terrance Callachan, cannot aggree with you on your right to vote policy.
    On one hand we want all people, living and working here to feel that they are welcome and fully participating in Scotland. All people, unless they are English born.
    That is just wrong. One of my children wouldn’t be able to vote, he was born in England whilst I was working down there. Nor would the many indy activists in our Yes group, or the many more English born supporters outside of our group. And you would take away the vote from my missus, one of the 3 Craws that set up the #amillionreasons.scot project.
    It is a divisive suggestion that is plain wrong.

  26. Alan Gordon.
    Being born in England does not mean you are English.You get a choice ,you can decide if you want to be English or if you want to take the nationality of one of your parents.
    That is how it works around the world.
    It’s how it works in UK
    Additionally the UK will allow you take British nationality if you deposit a million quid in a British bank and live here at least a few months of the year ,doesn’t matter about anything else.
    House of Lords is full of them.

    Additionally the UK will allow you to come to UK and either work here for five years or support yourself financially then you can apply for British citizenship answer a few questions about who the royal family are and which wars England won then you can get a British passport.

    Your child born in England can take your nationality or their mothers nationality or the nationality of England if they were born in England.Three choices.

    Any English person living in Scotland who was born in Scotland or has a parent who is Scottish should be allowed to vote in a Scottish independence referendum but otherwise English people should not be allowed to vote in a Scottish independence referendum, they should of course continue to be allowed to vote in local elections simply because they live in Scotland and vote in general elections simply because they live in UK just like a one else including those just passing through

    As for what you say about all people living and working in Scotland being able to participate fully in Scotland I agree to an extent but there are already exceptions, there are many many non E.U. citizens from countries outwith UK who do not get to vote in local elections and general elections perhaps because they have limitations on their stay or because they are from a country that UK doesn’t approve of.

    I don’t see why we have to give all English people a say in Scottish independence on grounds that they live here and should therefore get to fully participate in Scotland, most are here to work and will return to England they are not here permanently .
    If any English person wishes to take Scottish nationality once Scotland is independent they will be able to do so but it’s a lie to suggest that they want to fully participate in Scotland anyway ,they don’t, they just want a vote so they can stop Scottish independence.

    I have some English friends here where I live who have told me they tell others that they are in favour of Scottish independence when they are not , they voted against it in 2014, two of them even go to local SNP meetings in their village hall, just to see who is there .

    Sorry Alan the giving a vote on Scottish independence to English people living in Scotland so they can fully participate in Scotland is just nonsense ,80% of them voted NO in 2014 and will do so again and they are the first group to organise tactical voting too shifting their vote from labour or Lib Dem or Tory to whichever had the best chance of thwarting the local population of Scottish people voting SNP.

    Now is not the time Alan
    When is the time you ask ?
    Once Scotland is independent ,if they want to fully participate in Scotland to the extent you recommend then they can take Scottish nationality, I’m sure the new Scottish government will allow English people to retain their English nationality too and have dual nationality but to be honest nearly all of them won’t .
    A good friend of mine I mistakenly thought was Scottish he has lived here so long ,he was affronted when I said so with a “you must be joking “ look on his face when I said it.

    You see I spent many many years living in England, as a Scot, I spoke with an English accent, was mistakenly thought to be English by everyone , I recall the reactions of the few I confided in over the years, I recognise the lie.

  27. Hugh Wallace says:

    Terence,

    There is a lot of truth in what you say but one thing you haven’t addressed is the Scots living in other parts of the UK (or even further afield). If we are to ban English people from voting on this matter then surely must open up the vote to all Scots, regardless of where they are living. Now I have several friends who consider themselves to be very much Scottish but they live south of the border and are not inclined towards Scottish Independence at all. How do we square that circle? So, yes, I consider the current voting franchise to be badly flawed but it is possibly the best and fairest one on offer. But I would clamp down on postal votes and people who are registered to vote here due to owning a house in some lovely rural location but actually live and work elsewhere…

  28. First of all I think English people should not in any circumstances be able to vote in a Scottish independence referendum it is undemocratic in the extreme to allow people from the country we wish to be independent from to have a vote where they can vote for their country England to continue controlling Scotland.

    Scottish people who no longer live in Scotland ,no longer live in Scotland for many different reasons ,my sister for example lives in Canada she was born in Scotland and lived here until she married a Canadian and went to live in Canada, she does not expect to vote on Scottish matters ,she says it would be undemocratic for her to vote on matters relating to Scotland when she had chosen to live in another country, I think she is correct ,let’s face it if everyone on the planet was able to vote in every country they live in it would make a mockery of accountability.

    The fact is if you decide to leave your country and go live in a different country you have made a conscious decision to deprive yourself of the rules and regulations that apply to people still living in your country ,there are exceptions HM Forces for example can still vote in uk elections when living overseas for lengthy periods of time ,I think that is a good arrangement but people who have chosen to leave Scotland to go live in another country should not be able to vote on Scottish independence in fact it would be impossible to administer ,some Scottish people have lived away from Scotland for fifty sixty seventy years or more their exact whereabouts unknown.

    It would be fantastic if we held an accurate database of all Scottish people worldwide so that everyone could be asked but we don’t.
    I believe Latvia had such a database it being a fairly new and very modern internet educated country ,I believe they have regular votes on important national matters and hold the vote online so that Latvians worldwide can cast their vote ,fabulous.

    Scotland being an ancient nation likely had more Scottish people living outside Scotland than it has inside Scotland ,the result of so many years being kept under the boot of Westminster control was that Scottish people in their droves left Scotland to make a living elsewhere.

    Strange argument from you though Hugh, we should allow English people to vote on Scottish independence because some Scottish people in England would vote against Scottish independence, dream on that’s no argument.

  29. affanaeweel says:

    Terence, I was born in england, my family moved here in 1964, my parents both worked, and died in Scotland, with no thought ever, of returning to england. I went to school, worked, married, raised children, and now grandchildren here, and am now retired here – that is 55 years since I thought of myself as ‘english’.
    I voted YES in 1979, again in 2014, and am a member of the SNP, and have supported SNP since 1979, but am not to get a vote on my country ? This is ‘blood and soil’ nationalism – fascism – and badly misplaced. What about all the black/brown/yellow etc. Scots ? are they going to be ‘Scottish’ enough to vote on their/our future ? or is this racial profiling, to then be followed by ethnic cleansing?

    After Independence, “If any English person wishes to take Scottish nationality once Scotland is independent they will be able to do so” So, will this be like WINDRUSH 2, if I can’t find 50+ years old bits of paper, I will be ejected from my country ?

    Can you please provide links to your assertions,

    ” 80% of them voted NO in 2014 and will do so again ”

    ” most are here to work and will return to England they are not here permanently ”

    Stop focussing on the ‘english’ residents, even if you wrongly assume that 300,000 english residents voted NO, that still leaves 1,701,926 ‘Scots’ who voted NO in 2014, 660,048 who didn’t bother to vote, against 1,617,989 of us that voted YES. we still have a lot of work to do.

    We lost the 2014 referendum because we were not prepared, we had no answer for currency, and still don’t yet, pensioners were told that they would loose their pensions ( thanks gordon brown ), we were all told that we couldn’t afford to be Independent, and the massed ranks of all the political parties, all mainstream media, corporations and banks etc. against us ( still )

    Grousy, thanks for your work, but please don’t just write off us pensioners, many are isolated, and may only have msm, so are not informed, take the time and effort to speak to us, you may be pleasantly surprised, we were teenagers once! When are we going to start campaigning for a LIVING PENSION ?

  30. Robert Mitchell says:

    Terence, Please provide details of how you know that most English born people voted No in the referendum. Please also provide details of how the elderly also voted No. I am English born, but support Scottish independence despite my age. In 2014 it was the younger Scottish born members of my family who voted No. If I could take out Scottish citizenship right now I would. To leave it until after independence is a non-starter because without people like me independence will not happen. I am inclined to think that you do not actually want an independent Scotland.
    I would agree with you that there are English people who may wish to move to Scotland in order to benefit from what we have to offer. These will no doubt be the same people who have moved to EU countries but voted for Brexit.
    I have lived, worked and paid my taxes here for over 40 years and recognise the benefits of living here. I shall not be returning south as I have no reason to go. I do feel that this is My Scotland as much as if I had been born here or had a parent born here [I was actually born about 20 miles from where Craig Murray was born].
    I wonder if you realise how close your suggestions are to the attitudes of the Tory government at Westminster. You seem to be supporting the ideas of Theresa May and her ilk.

  31. Grouse Beater says:

    Robert – Terence, for information: a few institutions carried out swift research and analysis – Edinburgh University was one – after the Referendum, one conclusion from figures being, a majority of Scots voted for reinstatement of independence. That will remain a sore in the psyche of Scots if they don’t get a chance to reverse history.

  32. Robert Mitchell says:

    Funnily enough, Andrew Wilson in his column in the National newspaper on 18th April also quotes statistics concerning the indyref voting.

    I can only assume that these figures come about in the same way as polling for the various elections, by random sampling. I have never been approached for my details.

    I should have voted No because of my age. I should have voted No because of my ethnicity. Instead I voted Yes, as did my Scottish-born wife and daughter. My Scottish-born sons along with my daughter-in-law, Welsh son-in-law and English granddaughter voted to remain in the UK.

    Whether or not their view has changed I do not know as independence is a taboo subject in the family largely due to my passion on the subject. My Scottish-lawyer neighbour told me in 2014 that he did not know any intelligent people voting Yes. My Scottish neighbour on the other side gave me a tirade regarding Britishness and why we should reject independence. He has barely spoken to me these last five years.

    One of the biggest problems with independence is what it means in reality. Different people have different views. As I have said in the National and elsewhere, I do not come to this matter from a blood and soil nationalistic approach. I take a hard-headed English view, that nations should be self-governing, even though it is good to join together in certain projects and to maintain peace.

    I also recognise that at my age, I and others like Jim Sillars, should not try to force on Scotland a future which is unwanted by those who will have to live through many decades. I do believe that we should for the moment forget the minutiae of independence and just say Yes. The real future can be made only after that decision has been taken. Are we or are we not too small, too poor, too stupid?

  33. Grouse Beater says:

    My Scottish-lawyer neighbour told me in 2014 that he did not know any intelligent people voting Yes.”

    Your Scottish lawyer commits the sin of arrogance at condescension.

    Reinstating our independence gathers together our civil rights and liberties previously lost or denied and fastening them hard to the mast with a sound Constitution.

    We are not seceding because we are keeping the Union of the Crowns. (Yes, there are republicans and I am one, but we are in the minority.) Separation is impossible because there are so many of us living and working in either country, and with families in either, too many break the bond of filial loyalty and of commerce and trade.

    We plan to renegotiate an antiquated Treaty and replace it with an Accord fit for the 21st century.

  34. Robert Mitchell says:

    I have had a thought. Would it not be possible for those who wish for only “Scots” to vote in an indyref to compromise with those of us who have a different definition of “Scots”? I note that French-born Christian Allard, a former SNP MSP is putting himself forward as a candidate for the EU elections. We may not be Scottish-born or have Scottish parents, but we do have a belief in Scotland and the Scottish people.
    In Rugby, players in similar situations to us can play for the national team if they fulfil residency qualifications. Why not introduce something similar for indyref? This would at least stop the re-location of English people who wish to benefit from Scotland without fully appreciating the situation that voting for parties other than the SNP or Greens will lose them those benefits. Perhaps a five or even ten year qualification period could be applied.
    The indyref franchise should apply only to those living in Scotland. Scots who live elsewhere have made their choice and have no right to decide for the future of Scotland because they will not fully understand what is going on here. But that franchise should include all those who have decided their future is in this country, no matter where they are from.

  35. Definition of Scottish ?
    So tell me what is your definition of Scottish.
    Be mindful that a persons nationality is well defined just take a look at passport regulations and citizenship regulations .
    Funny how so many English people living in Scotland all of a sudden find it so confusing to determine nationality ,wasn’t so difficult for them when England decided people from E.U. countries would not be allowed to vote in the brexit referendum was it ?
    Apply the same rules to English people living in Scotland that were applied to people from E.U. countries living in England Scotland wales NI for the brexit referendum that’s fair isn’t it ?

  36. I have lived in England Northern Ireland Canada Libya Cyprus Malta etc should I be allowed to vote on their independence ? Of course not
    I’m not English
    I’m not Irish
    I’m not Canadian
    I’m not Libyan
    I’m not Cypriot
    I’m not Maltese

    Only thing English could come up with the arrogant demand that because they live in a country they should be able to determine its future equally with people who are actual nationals of that country
    But you know what ?
    I get it, I know how you all think, after all I as a Scot lived in England for many years mistaken for an Englishman I was , so all was revealed often by my English friends and neighbours about thoughts on Scotland and Scottish people, my accent was east Anglian .my real nationality unknown to them.
    It is the I am English but I’m also British and I love being British it’s so much bigger and more powerful being British than being what I actually am which is English, I can be little England with the big power of Britain I get certain privileges too I can be condescending to the welsh Irish and Scottish and have a superior attitude as well in the knowledge that my English parliament in Westminster can overrule the other three minnows any time at all.I like things fine just the way they are and don’t want any of this independence nonsense because suddenly I would be a minority in the country of Scotland instead of a huge majority in the country of Britain ( I say country of Britain because you all actually do believe Britain is a country rather than the four countries it actually is ) .
    English people living in Scotland are living in a country that is not their country.
    An English persons country is England.
    Not Britain.
    Not Scotland or wales or Ireland ,just England.
    Your nationality is English .
    When living in Scotland you should quite rightly be able to vote in local elections and in general elections but not on the future of Scotland ,Scotland is not England ,it is not the country of which you have nationality.

  37. Robert Mitchell says:

    Today is the anniversary of the birth of Adolf Hitler. Herr Hitler was of course Austrian by birth, yet he still became Chancellor of Germany and forced his views on the German people with the help of his Nazi thugs. He is perhaps the extreme example of a foreigner having too great an influence on the country he chooses to live in.
    I choose to live in Scotland and have been here, working and paying my taxes, for over 80% of my adult life. It was not my choice to be born in England [incidentally I do not recognise an East Anglian accent – Norwich, Norfolk, Suffolk and even Essex, but not East Anglian].
    I admit that I chose to come to Scotland as an economic migrant in 1977. I met my wife here and we have a family who currently all reside in Scotland. The last time I visited England was in 2011 for the interment of my mother’s ashes. I have no intention to visit again. I hold no brief for the English politicians running Westminster, nor for the attitudes of many English people who have seemingly taken Brexit to heart on the lies told by the political classes in England who wish to rid the country of all foreign influence, except that of the USA.
    If I had moved to another country and had taken out citizenship of that country, I should expect as a right to have a say in the future of that country in any elections or referendums. Because the law in Scotland says I am a British citizen, I cannot currently take Scottish citizenship as such. As I say in my submission to “A Million Reasons”, I am “English by birth, Scottish by choice and British by the choice of others”.
    Terence does not seem to understand that we are really on the same side – that is if he really is in favour of Scottish independence. He seems to wish to alienate me with his anti-English ranting. When I was working, many of my colleagues were from other countries of Europe as well as the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Japan and China. Many of these people settled with no intention of returning to their home countries except for a visit. They feel this is their home. Call them New Scots, but Scots they wish to be.
    Terence, please do not be like Adolf Hitler and his friends. I’m not sure I wish to live in a country run by people like you any more than I want to live in an England run by the politicians of all parties currently in charge.

  38. Amazing how English people so often refer to hitler as if that has anything to do with Scottish independence,English people went on and on about hitler during the brexit debate too, whenever England doesn’t get its own way out comes the we won the war and saved you from hitler spats or you are just like hitler because you don’t agree with me.
    English people don’t want people from outside England to have a vote on brexit they don’t want people in Scotland or Ireland to have a say on brexit, they don’t mind wales because they voted the same way and now they want the right to vote against Scottish independence well NO, this is a vote for Scottish people not English people and it doesn’t matter where those English people live they should not be getting a vote on Scottish independence.
    England has ravaged the world Scottish people want nothing more to do with it.
    By the way ,you like everyone else paid your taxes to the English government in Westminster that doesn’t give you a right to vote on Scottish independence.
    Your personal political views do not give you a right to vote on Scottish independence either nor does meeting your wife in Scotland give you a right to vote on Scottish independence.
    You are English by birth as you say, you are not Scottish ,you don’t just get to choose to be any old nationality that suits you at the time, that’s not how it works.
    And finally Robert, stop trying to be like winston Churchill Scotland felt the iron fist of English nationalism when Churchill put tanks on the streets of Glasgow to stop Scottish men striking ,we threw him out of Dundee when he was an mp here, thatcher likewise harmed Scottish men trying to do a hard days work .
    Being English means it would be undemocratic for you to have the chance to yes the chance to vote for England ( your country ) to keep my country Scotland subjugated and under the control of your country England.
    If you wish you can apply for Scottish citizenship and then Scottish nationality once Scotland is independent until then you will have to accept that you are without any doubt at all ,English.

  39. Robert Mitchell says:

    Terence, it is quite clear to me that you have an agenda which must be followed regardless. If you had actually read anything that I have said in these comments you would see that I may be English-born, but I support Scottish independence. As I have said, my Scottish-born family, who would have a vote under your franchise, would vote to remain in the UK. I do not consider myself to have your level of arrogance, but it appears to me that you are not seeking Scottish independence, but rather the continuation of a union which will allow you to continue with your anti-English spite.
    I did not compare you to Hitler, but on the occasion of his birthday I merely pointed out that if the people of Germany held the same views as you he would not have become Chancellor. I am also well aware of Churchill’s time in Dundee and his Ruth Davidson act in Glasgow. I also recognise that Britain has done much damage to the world through its empire. Please don’t forget the part Scots played in that empire. The problems caused by that empire are not simply to be laid at the door of the English, something which some Scots are now beginning to recognise.
    I should also say that I recently signed a petition to the UK parliament for England to leave the UK. [Anything to split this disunited kingdom.] The response I got began:

    The Government is committed to strengthening the United Kingdom, and has devolved decision making to communities across England. We will not hold a referendum on English independence.
    The Government is committed to maintaining and strengthening the Union, of which England is an important member nation. While we will not be holding a referendum, we think it is only right that England’s voice, as a whole, is strengthened just as devolution has strengthened the voices of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

    I have a number of friends in England who also signed this petition, not because they are anti-Scottish, but because they recognise that there are people who are wealthy, of the political and upper classes, who have manipulated the working classes to vote for Brexit with a particular xenophobic stance. Most English people may be ignorant of Scottish affairs, current or historical, but that does not make them bad people or anti-Scotland.
    I note that you are very anti-English, but as I said before, I have a number of former colleagues from many nations who over many years have made their home here. Because of the political system which governs our country, they too would be excluded by you from voting for independence. Some of them, like me, have settled here for decades, raised families and done what they could to be good and useful citizens. You do not wish to recognise this because you are filled with the Brexit bile against foreigners.
    I really don’t know what more I can say. I don’t think it is in any way worth continuing with this conversation. You may have the last word in order to satisfy yourself that you have defeated the dastardly Englishman who wishes to rule Scotland in a way only the English can. Meanwhile I shall continue to argue the case for Scottish independence [read my letters in the National] and I shall vote Yes in a future indyref.

  40. Bye Robert, you get the message ,you are a buffoon arrogant expectant failing to see the Scottish perspective.Your trick doesn’t work , as I told you already, I have friends that pull that same fast one, English people who claim to support and even claim to vote for Scottish independence and also claim that all their family born in Scotland do not support Scottish independence haha my friends openly tell me that is what they do ,it allows them to live amongst the enemy ,some are taken in by it but most are not, we see you ,we know you vote against Scottish independence and say you vote for it, that’s old hat people’s have been doing that down the centuries ,you think it’s new, it’s not.

  41. Alan Gordon says:

    Terence, you are correct in saying that people are capable of deception but only the xenophobe would attach that to particular people born in a different part of the country. I question your motives.

    I see clearly where you are coming from.

    Your utterances through this thread have never taken account of where we are, in this union. You tried to convince me and others that one of my children born in England could choose whether he was english or scottish. Terence when it comes to paper work, bureaucracy he was British. You are british we are all british, untill independence.

    To gain independence we have to persuade those living amongst us, no matter where they were born, of the benefits to be had from independence, I’ll continue campaigning this way.

    It would be better if you didn’t campaign your way. The way of exclusion is devisive and wrong.

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